Guest Post By Stede of Venture, LLT.
Let me just start by saying that I wrote this Guest Post for JMTC rather than my own blog, Venture, LLT, simply because I wanted to enrage a larger audience. So, lock & load your peashooters and take aim - and by all means, feel free to skip down after the next sentence to the comments and flame me, you lil volatile fireballs.
Oh poor Truegold - despite its efforts to remain the superhero of 4.2 stockpilers across the world, it is crippled. Yes, I said it - you guys with Truegold stocked up will end up selling them at marginal profits - not the through-the-roof prices you probably hoped for. There's a good explanation for this, but first, let's set the foundation:
First, there's gold in Azeroth - lots. As evidenced by the page hits Markco sees, more and more people are coming to the dark side and embracing their inner goblin. Blizzard has had to nerf the shuffle by an incredible 1200% to reign in the amount of gold that entered into the economy. This leads to competition when it comes to stockpiling. And Truegold is an easy target - 10 seconds of work for an item that everybody is gonna need. Why not grab some volatiles on the cheap and start stocking up on them? With margins as thin as 50g going into the patch - a lot of folks saw a big opportunity.
So, before I get that one guy that says, "I have the market to myself, Stede - you're an idiot," allow me to say: grats, sir - you may be excused to skip down to the blogroll (Markco - this guy needs your blogroll reposed - plz man, plz) to find more stimulating / less irritating reading. For everybody else who saw some teenage dude camp all your markets on TUJ while you were working your 9-5, read on.
So, we have our premise that the supply of Truegold is not anemic. I won't say it's inflated, but it is, at the very least, quite perfectly normal. Which brings us to the point that will bring much wailing and gnashing of teeth - the demand spike will not come. Any industrious goblin knows what will use Truegold - crafted epics. Namely, 365 Blacksmithing-Crafted Weapons, and 378 Crafted Gloves & Boots. These fall into their own two distinct classed.
The Weapons are purchased via the new daily Firleands questing currency - Marks of the World Tree. While the exact timeframe seems to have been a moving target to some degree, the survey says that we'll be 21 days into 4.2 before these recipes can be purchased. The good news is that they don't require any Living Embers (the new, unbound 'crusader orb' that drops only from new raid bosses). The bad news is that 365-359 = Six. Let that sink in. Six. Twenty-one days into the patch you can buy a new weapon at a ~5k+ crafting cost for an extra 6 ilvls.
But hey, why not, right? I'm reminded about the 346 Blacksmithing-crafted weapons in the last tier. Those didn't sell at all. Of course, 365 weapons don't drop from anything like heroic dungeons this time around, either - so, maybe, I'll be wrong, but 6 ilvls just seems so small. In any event, this doesn't seem like it will be a raider's cup of tea.
But what about that 378 gear? Well, that stuff requires a handful of those Living Embers I was telling you about - the ones that drop only from raid bosses. Which means, that for every 4 or more raid boss kills there are, there is an opportunity to craft one of these items. The bosses in Firelands on Normal difficulty drop the same 378 gear (Ragnaros drops 384, iirc). If you can down four of em, it shouldn't be that far-reaching to think that one may drop gloves or boots.
However - T12 gloves will be available for Valor Points, and will count towards your set bonus, and will be 378. The boots are different. We all recall the T11 Valor Boots, but you'll notice that there aren't any T12 Valor Boots. So, the boots recipes will probably be popular, but we're talking about 1 set of boots a week - tops, for every guild capable of clearing 4 bosses. There will be demand, but there will be enough of a bottleneck as far as Living Embers as to restrict demand for this gear considerably. I'm convince that demand won't be able to live up to the expectations most have (particularly when you consider the competition), and you'll see that reflected in stagnated Truegold prices.
The last point I want to make is that 359 epics will no longer be crafted and sold in any quantity worth considering. Nobody is gonna spend triple the crafting cost on 359 gear when T11 raids are nerfed to puggable facerolls, and 358 pvp gear is avilaible for 1/3-1/10th of the price. Well, maybe some poorly-informed, loaded noob who's in a rush to lvl his BDK so he c4$|-| !N on $w337 100t$ in Firelands will, but... on second thought, maybe that is a good market.
Of course, by extension, this makes all the BoE epic 378 hands recipes you noobs were trying to sell on Day 1 for 25k, are quite worthless. Although that's another story entirely, and good-effing-game if you managed to sell one for 25k, I'm certain that by the time this post pushes it's way to the front of the line that we'll all know that the drop rate on these is so high that even 5k is a gouge.
From where I sit, if you're sitting on more than 2 or 3 stacks of Truegold (maybe more if you're on a high pop server), and you're scratching your head at the indifference of your AH prices, it may be a good idea to start using your cooldown for living elements. Volatiles are going to stay in demand. Though some of that demand may seem transient, Fire and Earth are safe bets - strictly because people always need new leg armor - this will drive true market volume. If you stockpiled Volatile Life when it was low - start putting it to work. Keep an eye on things, though - they always seem to change if you don't.
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35 comments: on "The Cooldown - Understanding Truegold Demand in 4.2"
Anonymous said... July 3, 2011 at 9:40 AM
Yea I saw this coming and managed to sell my single stack of truegold that I had stockpiled the day before patching at around 300g profit per bar. Didn't seem that wise at the time but considering the subsequent drop in truegold value I'm a very happy (ah) camper
jimmyolsenblues said... July 3, 2011 at 10:57 AM
I have about 2 stacks of true gold just sittiing. The problem on my servier is that volatile life sells 7-8g each and fire/water is less in buik. So I have been xmuting wrath gems lately.
Anonymous said... July 3, 2011 at 12:07 PM
Im not gonna rage on what you wrote. Instead, im going to thank you. I have only partially started my stockpiling on truegold, and now I see that I should not continue. Instead, I'll use what I have for my own gear. You saved me from being a noob who doesnt make a profit from their truegold :P
Clint R. Murphy said... July 3, 2011 at 12:39 PM
Not sure I 100% agree bit you raise some points that did have me worrying when I started to buildy truegold stockpile - specifically the loving embers requirement.
If you are right, I will be in pain with close to 200 trueold in my bags...
Xsinthis said... July 3, 2011 at 1:13 PM
Yea, this first experience of stockpiling is leaving a sour taste in my mouth, i'm honestly just hoping to break even on this pile
Anonymous said... July 3, 2011 at 1:15 PM
Good info - I'm one of the stockpilers with 30+ stacks, seeing with pain the sinking prices of truegold since 4.2-release.
Anonymous said... July 3, 2011 at 2:05 PM
I got about 15-20 stacks of truegold saved up. No matter what I know I'm gonna make money off em. The weapons will be in demand guranteed. You can either drop 40-60k on a 378 or 10-20 on a 365. An upgrade is an upgrade regardless. You won't have to farm the last boss of the new heroics trying to get your damn weapon anymore. Fire is an ok stock material but the new dailies have plenty for drops. I would stock up water instead. They are near impossible to farm. Earths I don't trust because I know alot of people have pyrite stocked up for epic gems. Those give v earth when prospected.
Grump said... July 3, 2011 at 2:33 PM
good post, and dead right. Anyone that expected to make big gold just from truegold is a chump.
Flabadoff said... July 3, 2011 at 3:19 PM
As ever, awesome article from stede :P concise, to the point and accessible - plus he's a well grounded blogger, you'd be nuts to pass on him
Mesh said... July 3, 2011 at 3:21 PM
You're right :| I've been coming to the same sad conclusion myself, as I sit here on top of a stack of 450 truegold.
Truegold is now down 60g from where I bought it, as people dump their small stockpiles. I don't see a worthwile crafting bump incoming, especially since chaos orbs didn't go BOE.
Anonymous said... July 3, 2011 at 5:41 PM
I like this take. I'm a follower more than a leader forging my own gold strategies, so I look to blogs like these (and others) for direction and insight. My gut feeling for 4.2 onward hasn't been a good one, and I think this post sums up the growing concern I've had as a casual goldmaker who has stockpiled not only truegold but volatiles as well as pyrite ore (all 3 recommended by everyone and their relatives). Time will tell, but for this post I'll simply say that I tend to agree. Frankly, I'd love to see the gold-making game shift because of trends like "more people are doing it", and twists like "Pyrite = fool's gold = no epic gems".
Stede said... July 3, 2011 at 6:12 PM
Just so you guys know, I used to have an editor that I kept locked in my basement and fed anchovies and crackers, but he went on a hunger strike a few weeks ago.
He scribbled the following note in fish paste on the floor before he died, "God save all the poor goblins I leave behind to suffer these grammatical atrocities - I can no longer bear this burden."
scottiegazelle said... July 3, 2011 at 9:43 PM
"I'm certain that by the time this post pushes it's way to the front of the line that we'll all know that the drop rate on these is so high that even 5k is a gouge."
I know it was a snipe patch, but the drop rate has been nerfed. Shush you, I wanna make 25k still. :p
Potatosrock said... July 4, 2011 at 1:24 AM
A couple things, first of all I do not believe that the crafted ilvl378 pieces require Truegold anyway so the only real demand that you will see for Truegold will be from the ilvl 365 weapons.
Even so, the crafted ilvl 378 gloves may not show up a lot in terms of being for sale but alts do exist. Raiders will buy their alts ilvl 378 gear just to have a geared alt.
Once the supply of Living Embers is up, which may take a while, Blacksmiths will be looking to craft them for resale. Not all the pieces have to be made with 4 Living Embers from 1 guild. A majority of the raiding guilds will probably be able to down at least the first 1-2 bosses and will have spare embers to post on the auction house.
On the topic of the weapons, 6 ilvls is 6 ilvls, the same idea as "an upgrade is an upgrade". People will always be looking to push those 2 extra ilvls so that they can be that much better when they whisper the big cheese raid leader with their class/spec/ilvl.
People will also, as you pointed out, have a ton of gold from all of the shuffling and therefore will want to spend it. Whether it is on that extra 6 ilvls or the ilvl 378 gloves and boots for their alt, people will have gold burning a hole in their pocket just waiting to fall the hands of crafters.
However with all that being said I agree that Truegold will not sell well but I'm not sure if I completely agree with it selling for lower prices than pre-patch. Still a very interesting post though and the first one I've finished in a while. Thumbs up from me.
Sinshroud said... July 4, 2011 at 4:10 AM
There are certain points that I agree on and certain that I don't. Either way we will have to wait and see.
I'm currently on 200 Truegold, all of which I bought at 350-490g which isn't too bad.
Truegold is settling now on my server for 400-420g, so I maybe make a 50g-100g loss off Truegold if I tried to sell em now.
That's about a 10-20k gold loss, not too bad. I will look on the bright side that I now have a lifetime supply for all my crafts and get to save much time from gathering mats and can also now focus on other transmutes!
Do not loose hope fellow stockpilers. Don't look at your entire stockpile as a complete loss, do something useful with it.
Anonymous said... July 4, 2011 at 6:18 AM
Are the items from the firelands patterns really that bad? You give me the impression they're not worth making at all. I've been collecting all of them, and becasue of the droprate they had the first few days, people are basically throwing them at me quite cheap. I feel pretty sure I will be able to craft and sell them later on when living embers reach a decent price, as I assume they won't be dropping only from raidbosses forever, but added to vendors at some point.
Some people do pay tons of gold for just a small increase of ilvl/stats.. Just look back when they first implemented epic gems from fishing as the first epic gems ever. People paid 10-20k for these, when that was actually a huge amount of gold.
Hayam said... July 4, 2011 at 7:47 AM
He is right to some extent, but I am certain we will see a spike the day and day after the new recipes hit, as for serious raiders every bit of stats is valuable, so whoever will be able to unload their pile at that time, will win.
Anyone who stockpiled pyrite ore completely disregarding the fact that there were no epic gems on ptr, or stockpiled anything without taking into consideration the usual behaviour of markets on his servers in the patch week, is a moron and deserves the lesson.
Kathroman said... July 4, 2011 at 9:53 AM
I don;t know about everyone else, but I actually bought all my truegold under the expectation that it won't lose any value, and therefore was as close to a safe investment as I could see at the time. Volatiles seemed quite a bit riskier (I did grab a bunch), but I figured that until Blizzard decides to remove the truegold CD, Truegold should hold value.
As long as mat prices continue to hold strong, of which there is no indication against, Truegold will pull out of this panic mode and bounce right back to where it was before. Also, on my server, truegold is selling for about 200g more on Alliance side, so :P
Anonymous said... July 4, 2011 at 9:58 AM
Hind site is 20/20. Making this guest post 2-3 weeks ago would have been much more impressive, useful, and more successful in getting the enraged response you were looking for.
Caitlyn said... July 4, 2011 at 10:31 AM
I really enjoyed this post! It's thought-provoking and informative...helped me re-think my stockpiling strategies.
I actually wasn't optimistic about truegold spiking in price, so didn't stockpile. I DID stockpile volatiles, though, which so far I haven't regretted -- I got them at very low prices, and even if I don't re-sell them directly, I have two tailors who will burn through them for dreamcloth, as well as my other crafters. Still, I am seeing some increases in volatile prices that have allowed me to profit so far.
Regarding the patterns...I may disagree with you there. Anyone who noticed them dropping like crazy had to know that Blizz would nerf that drop rate. In every expansion, I have done pretty well with epic patterns. Either raiders are prioritizing their badges to other stuff and decide they want a crafted item, or people have an alt or two that they play really seriously, and they want the crafted stuff. Maybe I got burned on buying these patterns for myself and my guild, but I am thinking not.
We shall see ;) In any case, thank you so much for a well-written and very interesting post!
Toasty said... July 4, 2011 at 12:02 PM
I play a warrior and I'd just like to point out that both the dps gloves and boots AND the tanking gloves and boots are perfectly itemised. I will certainly be looking to craft them for myself or buy them if the price is right. For dps warriors anyway, the gloves will be the offset from tier. For this reason I imagine that there will be some demand for these pieces.
Stede said... July 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM
@ Potato - Good point, though I could've sworn that, in the info datamined from the ptr that these recipes required Truegold at some point.
@ Anon - The gloves recipes are pretty worthless, imo.
@ Anon - Hindsight doesn't apply, as the post described coming demand.
@ Caitlyn & Everyone else talking about drop rate nerfing - As far as I know, the drop rates were NOT nerfed. The loot tables on solo'able trash were removed, but the drop rates remain otherwise unaffected. Some may call this a 'nerf', but you'll only see supply fluctuations result if your server had 1 or 2 guys who were able to solo Firelands trash before the hotfix.
@ Toasty - That's a very good point. One thing to keep in mind is that even though the crafted may be a side-grade, the tier gloves will count towards your set bonus. I'm not sure what that works out to for Warriors, but I know for my rogue, that'd be about 300 EP. They will definitely see some use, but the demand will likely be situational.
@ All - I'm glad you guys enjoyed or didn't enjoy the article. Even if you didn't like it, it seems to have definitely made you think. I've always taken a demand-centric approach to understanding the AH economy - by understanding why demand shifts, you can begin to formulate where it will go. That gives you an opportunity to prepare in advance and reap the profits.
Anonymous said... July 4, 2011 at 2:59 PM
Truegold prices have fallen because no one has any new use for them yet.
No one needed to stockpile for the RELEASE of 4.2 -- prices of truegold will go up again in one months time when people actually start consuming it.
For the time being, the impatient stockpilers are undercutting eachother in a race to the bottom.
Saite said... July 4, 2011 at 8:04 PM
Stede, you are wrong here. There was a nerf to the Drop rate of recipes in Firelands. The official post said:
"The rate at which crafting recipes drop has been greatly reduced."
Wow Insider ran a piece on it in detail:
http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/07/02/fireland-crafting-recipe-drop-rate-nerf/
I also think you are flat-out wrong in saying that Truegold will stay low. No-one has even unlocked the recipes that will require all the Truegold yet. The only reason Truegold fell at all is due to the panickers. These are the people who never make any real money at the AH anyway, so nothing has changed.
You think that Living Embers will be a barrier, but don't forget how Truegold is made - an alchemist can make one Truegold a day, that is it. When you realise that the recipes that will soon be available to people will need 8 truegold for just one item then you start to get the picture. That means it takes the mats from 8 alchemists complete 24 hour production to make just 1 piece of armour. Think on that for a moment and you suddenly realise that there will never be enough truegold to satisfy demand.
In the short term there will be a lot about, because people stockpiled, but as soon as that is used up what happens then? Quite simply there are not enough alchemists on each server to keep up with demand. The price will rise very high. That is when you want to be selling your Truegold, not before.
Saite
rafar said... July 5, 2011 at 9:24 AM
somehow i didnt see any1 say the Truegold transmute now drops 2-4 stacks instead of 1-2.
That certainly made me sell my stock.
Stede said... July 5, 2011 at 10:59 AM
Saite,
You can disagree, but I accounted for the fact that the recipes are not yet available. I've also accounted for the fact that a tranmute alchemist can make another 17 Truegold before these are avilable.
Many guilds with aboslutely zero PTR experience are already working on Firelands Hardmodes. Also, don't forget that Heroic T11 raids drop 372 gear.
As for the drop rate, I'm not wrong at all. I followed the entire solo farm movement quite closely, and while removing loot tables on solo'able trash may seem effectively like a nerf, unless your server had solo farmers to begin with, you likely won't see a difference.
You point in reference to the crafted 378 gear being gated by Truegold is moot - those recipes don't use Truegold - something that I believe changed between the PTR and live realms.
Still, I don't understand how you'd think that Truegold would be a bottleneck over Living Embers. We're talking 7 a week for a 10-man guild and probably double for a 25-man guild - and that's once the raid is on farm.
And once it's on farm, raiders may as well just wait on the RNG to drop boots from the bosses.
So, no - it's not something I suddenly forgot. It's something I carefully considered, weighed, explained, etc - I'd urge you to read the full article and think on some of these things yourself. If you do that, you'll realize that my entire point is that the demand is not there, and it will not come in enough volume to outpace supply - those are arguements I made that you did not address.
Thomas said... July 5, 2011 at 11:27 AM
@Saite - 100% agree with you. I enjoyed the article, but I am more in line in thinking with Saite. Guess we'll see! I've got about 150 TG that I purchased or produced for well less than 600g. Prices are around 650g now. I want to sell mine for 1000g at least. I think that will be easily possible.
Saite said... July 7, 2011 at 12:22 PM
Interesting thoughts, Stede, but I still think you are incorrect.
Here's just one problem with your thinking - some of the recipes don't need Living Embers.
Just one example is:
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=100687
If you look you at just this item you will see that it requires 8 Truegold to make one gun, no Living Embers needed, just Chaos Orbs. So, your bottleneck has vanished and as far as I can see, this will not be the only recipe like this.
This is exactly why I am still hoarding and stashing Truegold. How many Hunters will want that gun? The answer is 'enough'.
Take my Engineer as a case in point, he has 40 Chaos Orbs on him right now, so at 5 Chaos for 1 Gun I can make 8 Guns. To do that I will need 64 Truegold - 64!! And that is just for 8 Guns, without all the other uses there will be for Truegold. Just go and look on Wowhead for what Truegold will make when the recipes are unlocked. Yes, a lot of the items are 365, but even so, in my experience there are enough non-raiders/alts/casuals to start a feeding frenzy.
So, if I am going to get through 64 Truegold just for 8 Guns, can you imagine the demand there will be in a couple of weeks time?
Therefore, I still maintain that Truegold will completely dry up and because 1 alchemist can make just 1 Truegold day, it will simply disappear form the AH and people will be chasing Alchemists who haven't used their CD that day, desperate to find the 8 they need for one item...
Anyway, let's see who is right, but at the moment I cannot see any way Truegold will not be rising through the roof..
Saite
Anonymous said... July 7, 2011 at 1:11 PM
I hope you're right Saite - I only have a couple of stacks and doubt I will lose money but it would be nice to sell them for a big profit - i'm holding out until the new recipes are out there.
Regarding this post, I really like the writing style - very entertaining. And I think you bring up some valid points. Definitely the best of the guest bloggers so far imo.
Anonymous said... July 8, 2011 at 4:11 AM
Lesson no. 1: never stack just one item. I've learnt this the hard way back in TBC and it has paid off ever since. Regarding Truegold, I'm not too worried. Current price on Bladefist is 450, which is still quite a bit above my break-even level and I expect this to drop further for about a month to month and a half before starting to slowly recover.
Why a month and a half? Because, as the OP said, we shouldn't expect mains to need this very much - but alts will. Take for instance my druid. A second alt, so that's little to no raiding, even if I get the agility staff in ZG sometime soon, that'll still be only ilvl 353. This makes the BoE weapon pretty much a best in slot - even more so if the alt just hit level 85 and can instantly get a very good weapon to run around with. Massive gold gains? Not really. A small boon? Definitely.
On the other hand, I should have saved a whole lot more gems. You'd be amazed how fast a thousand red gems sells :p
Anonymous said... July 10, 2011 at 10:36 PM
I disagree with this post, as the truegold surge is still to come. You are totally discounting the pull of i365 weapons for casuals who aren't raiding, alts of raiders who lol around on them, and gold buyers looking to boost their ilevel to get in dungeons.
Anonymous said... July 12, 2011 at 2:22 PM
I like how the article right before this one is "Patience is a Virtue." The price of Truegold isn't speeding downhill at the moment and it's been pretty steady for a long while, so I'm going to hold onto my 2 stacks for another couple weeks.
Potatosrock said... July 19, 2011 at 10:59 PM
Well, on my server Truegold spiked today on the first day the weapons are available. Jumped from 350g to 850g and I've already sold everything I've posted so far.
Anonymous said... July 20, 2011 at 7:55 AM
Haha, worst insight by OP ever.
Anonymous said... July 27, 2011 at 8:51 PM
I doubted the advice of the OP as well and bought all the truegold on my server as people were panicking and giving it away for 300g soon after the patch. I managed to sell everything I bought and the additional amount I transmuted before the patch for between 700-800g each as soon as people got the patterns for a total intake of 294,542 gold according to my My Sales addon. The price is still around 679g as it seems people did not stockpile much and simply sold most of their goods to me at a discount.
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