Some wow businessmen see the gold cap as their only goal in wow. The glory of getting there is all that matters to them, regardless of who they cheat, scam, or trick along the way. Perhaps they will eventually get there, but it's a long road and there are multitudes of pissed off people left shaking their fists in anger at being cheated.
Let's put something into perspective real quick: This is a game. Wait hold on that's too simple: This is an easy game. And one more clarification: This is an easy game with real people playing with you.
If you think that hitting the gold cap is so important that you need to lie, cheat, and steal your way to the top then you have some serious issues. What's more, hitting the gold cap is not hard or time consuming once you develop honest, simple, repeatable methods to get there.
I bring up this point because I'm seeing more and more people discuss the ethics behind selling 100 bullets/arrows for slightly less than 1000 due to the vague blizzard interface on the auction house which makes it hard to see that there is a missing 0. This is a dishonest and terrible way to conduct business. Each person you piss off by supplying 100 arrows/bullets instead of 1000 will be one less customer you have and they will most likely spread the word about your selling practices.
There's always an honest way to profit that counters the negative scams. For this scenario, unlike the people selling bullets/arrows in stacks of 100, as an honest businessman/woman you can sell your own stacks of 100 but for normal price, thus destroying the scam. You will profit from people who don't realize you're selling in stacks of 100 or you will make profit off those that decide to buy your full stacks instead of the 100's.
Put this to practice on your server and show those liars and cheats a thing or two about how to conduct a real business where you value repeat customers over one time sales or scams. If enough people start posting their ammo in both stacks of 1000's and a few 100's then this argument over who is being a moron or who is being ethical won't even exist.
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49 comments: on "Griefing on Wow Auction House - Ending the Ammo Debate"
Gold NoScripts said... December 28, 2009 at 9:09 AM
I don't sell arrows, I never have. While it does seem like an easy way to make some loot, I never bothered as I'm happy with my channels for gold. With that said, the "scammers", or "opportunists" using this arrow glitch won't be facing any repercussions from their buyers.
There is no customer service in the AH. You aren't able to return things. Shoppers don't go to the friendlist merchant. There is no quality of goods. People buy the cheepest item everytime, period. If Bankaltman ripped me off on arrows, but is selling primodial saronite 20% cheeper then everyone else, I'm going back to Bankaltman.
On top of the actual driving factor for AH purchases (price, it's always price), AH is completely anonymous, infact most people don't even use their main character to post auctions. Most serious AH players use bank alts and batch posts. So maybe Bankaltman did rip me off, but I'm still buying from him when I buy more arrows from Arrowbankalt.
I don't agree with using a lack of UI clarity to gain gold, but there certainly isn't going to be anything more then some hate mail from doing it. It won't effect your gold per hour, and it shouldn't effect your status on your server, unless you post it on your main and you ripped off your guild leader.
Grump said... December 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Back when they were the only way to stack potions to 20, I briefly sold single stack potion injectors for half the price of a full stack, mostly as an experiment. I made way more gold than I thought I would in a week, then stopped because I knew I was being an ass.
It's frightening (or comical, depending on your viewpoint) how many oblivious people there are in the AH. I guess it's a sign that the RL threat of jailtime is more effective than a lot of people give it credit for, since we don't see this type of stuff nearly so often in the real world.
bo-breaze said... December 28, 2009 at 10:38 AM
In my personal oppinon i dont see anything wrong with selling stacks of arrows for 4g for 100 even if it is 999% above market price. I believe it is up to the other wow players to double check prices and make sure what they purchase is worth the value. If they dont they lose I win is it ethical hell no but bussiness isn't about ethics its all about the gold or dollars.
I guess this makes me an ass but i really dont care. I picture myself as the walmart on the AH. I make great deals but every now and then u get screwed mainly in the electronics area or in my arrow market. It sucks for the player, customer but thats life and you have to be responsible for making bad purchases.
A real life example amazon .com 6ft hdmi cable 5$ walmart 3ft for 25$
Markco said... December 28, 2009 at 11:08 AM
bobreaze - the best kind of business is the repeat customer mindset, which relies heavily on good ethics. If your end goal is simply dollars then being an ethical businessman will get you the most dollars anyway.
bo-breaze said... December 28, 2009 at 11:17 AM
Well on my server aparently they dont mind no hate mail as of yet and many repeat customers for my stack of 100. Customers purchase what they belive is a good value. I pay frito 3 bucks for half a bag of chips is that false advertisement yes. but after doing it once i know 3 dollars only gets me half a bag of chips. I guess what my ethical view differs from tohers but its ok.
which raises the question if selling arrows at diffrent stack prices unethical then buying bars x 20 and selling them for 50% more than u paid per unethical. IS selling ice cold milk for 1g when it can be bought from a vendor unethical? in my view no i dont force anyone to purchase it i dont switch out quantites its plain as day. The customer sees the item , how many and cost. its not a sellers fault they don't realize theres better deals out there.
Iiene of Kul Tiras said... December 28, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Correct, Marcko.
While 'goblins' may see short term gains by being unethical, the time they waste coming up with 'scams' instead of building honest business relationships will limit them in the long run.
However, this mostly applies in the real world, where things like counterfeiting exist. The WoW AH is mercilessly regulated in that aspect. In game, you can't misrepresent a product, only the qty of the stack (by pricing it to 'appear' to be a full stack on sale)
The downside of scamming people is you have to expend energy covering it up. You can't talk about how you're scamming people to your guildmates, etc. You have to lie, you have to remember what you lied about and to whom. It's just counterproductive in the long term to scam people.
Markco said... December 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM
The point of this article is to show a positive way to make gold that ruins the scam... simply sell your arrows in both stacks of 1000 and 100 but for normal price.
The only reason I see this as different from restacking any other item is that the user interface makes it difficult for a new buyer to figure out they are being cheated.
I have no problem with restacking other items such as saronite bars or greater cosmic essences and upping the price since most people only want a couple at a time instead of a stack.
bo-breaze said... December 28, 2009 at 12:01 PM
This will be my last post on the subject mainly because i have nothing to addd. Not all goblins are around to abuse their customers infact most customers probably prefer the goblin that is selling lower than average IE glyph goblins. This scam could be fixed by blizzard if they have a problem with it or it could have been avoided if they had made the best arrows/ bullets in game only sold by vendor. I feel no remorse for selling stacks of 100 arrows it doesnt make me feel like a slimeball it just makes me shake my head at the people purchasing it. IF someone came in and crashed that market to normal prices i wouldnt shed a tear i would move on. IF you feel that repricing is a marketing scam then i ask you to show me proof of how its a scam because i can tell the diffrence between 100 and 1000 arrows in default or auctioneer views. IS it a sellers fault other people want the ammo and shell out gold on stacks of 100 instead of stacks of 1000? No its the buyers There is no scam here because in the default and auctioneer window a player can tell the difference between stack sizes if they are smart and double check before just clicking buyout like its a chore.
April said... December 28, 2009 at 12:09 PM
That is a really great idea Marcko!
Although personally I don't really think the UI is that confusing.
Arrowbankalt said... December 28, 2009 at 12:12 PM
You show me an ethical business man and I'll show you a broke business man. The two just don't coexist, especially in an anonymous game. I'm sorry you feel conflicted about this but that's the way 99% of the people with bank alts play.
If people were so ethical they wouldn't buy bot-farmed herbs/ore and they wouldn't resell items that were 90% below market but rather send them back to the uninformed seller.
I'm sorry but I disagree, taking advantage of a UI error or a miss-priced item is the same thing. People wouldn't have any difficulty pricing that item with Auctioneer, and wouldn't have any difficulty seeing the true stack size with any other type of AH addon.
Ismaris said... December 28, 2009 at 12:19 PM
@Jeddy: I view what you did as perfectly ethical. There are myriad scenarios of people who might only desire ONE potion injector, and your option might have been the cheapest avenue for achieving that one injector.
The arrow trick relies on hasty buying and an interface shortcoming. It's entirely different in my opinion.
Qaaz said... December 28, 2009 at 12:25 PM
The difference between relisting ore for a higher price and selling arrows as stacks of 100 for a stack of 1000 price is that when buying the ore, the customer accepts to pay 6g for a single bar, but when buying a stack of 100 arrows, he accepted to buy a stack of 1000, hence the ripping off.
bo-breaze said... December 28, 2009 at 12:59 PM
"The difference between relisting ore for a higher price and selling arrows as stacks of 100 for a stack of 1000 price is that when buying the ore, the customer accepts to pay 6g for a single bar, but when buying a stack of 100 arrows, he accepted to buy a stack of 1000, hence the ripping off."
What are you talking about when a customer clicked buy on stack of 100 he agreeed to buy 100 now wether he thought it was a 1000 or 100 thats up in the air. It is not a sellers fault that a buyer filters his Ui to show lowest cost first. It is not the sellers fault that the buyer purchases a stack of 100. These are all buyer mistakes. This so called scam falls under the same thing as relisting saronite bars for 4g each when u purchase a stack for 30g. Buyers are losing because they choose to be hasty and not think out what can be done. pay 32g for the 8 bars they need now and have no left overs. Well hunters need arrows they want them cheap is it a sellers fault that the hunter didnt double check stack size when he saw a undercut price? I Say no its not a sellers fault thats a consumers responsability.
Sargeta said... December 28, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I first posted this "scam" in the JTMC forums, and got so flammed that my ego is burnt to crisps /sarcasm.
bobreaze is 100% right. If the only reason this is considered "unethical", then you might as well stop selling vendor stuff on AH for huge markups (as I saw it described in this very blog), abusing the stack-splitting technique and a few others.
Also, "You show me an ethical business man and I'll show you a broke business man." This has to be one of the most awesome statements I ever read in a while.
Markco said... December 28, 2009 at 1:13 PM
The assumption is that the buyer knows what they are getting with repriced saronite bars. With the ammunition they do not realize that a stack of 100 arrows is being sold to them.
How many people out there actually want to buy 100 bullets? I can however name a lot of people who only want to buy 4 saronite bars.
Heywood Djiblomi said... December 28, 2009 at 1:17 PM
@Qaaz: "...but when buying a stack of 100 arrows, he accepted to buy a stack of 1000..." Is this supposed to be interpreted as "he didn't know what he was agreeing to", or "he didn't read the fine print in the contract", or simply "Buyer is illiterate"? In any of those cases - CAVEAT EMPTOR.
Just a quick question: why does marketing research even exist? Judging from the mass QQ on the subject, applied sociology (which is what marketing research IS) is evil and should never be used to maximize profit.
Baileykitty said... December 28, 2009 at 3:04 PM
@Arrowbankalt
I would have to disagree with you, I've hit gold cap without treating my customers like redheaded step-children. I can confidently say I don't purchase bot farmed items because I either farm it myself or simply don't use the item.
The items I do buy from people I have cultivated more than just a click trade enter xxxx amount of gold get goods relationship. I have actually made more of an effort to get to know my sellers personally. I know how they get their goods, when they will be able to sell, etc. I treat my customers (on and off ah) like king and in return I have started to procure a very loyal customer base. (who wouldn't want to see a 15k C.O.D of goods that you can manipulate into making almost double that)
I guess simple real life business practices are above and beyond those who are not willing to put in the effort. I guess it is a matter of whatever floats your boat, biting the hand that feeds you or treating them with kindness.
Anonymous said... December 28, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Excellent advice, thank you =)
Tree said... December 28, 2009 at 9:01 PM
I'm glad to see somebody finally say it. Warcraft thrives due to strong server communities. Everyone knows who the best raiding guilds are, who dominates the AH and who the usual characters are in trade. When you tap into that community the game is rewarding. When you screw that community you're playing with fire.
They might forgive you the odd vendor-pet on the AH trick, but if somebody thinks they've been downright cheated you'll know about it... and so will everyone else.
Anonymous said... December 28, 2009 at 9:06 PM
It's no different than selling Ice Cold Milk or other vendor items at high markups, which is something you've advocated.
Caveat emptor is the number one rule in commerce. If a buyer isn't paying attention to what they are buying or just buy the cheapest listing automatically without care, that's their problem, not the seller's.
Your pissing match with Gevlon is ridiculous.
Markco said... December 28, 2009 at 9:23 PM
Except that the person buying ice cold milk knows how many they are buying because there is no confusion with the UI, especially if they don't have auctioneer to see the percentage market value.
Dillon Welch said... December 28, 2009 at 9:36 PM
It is incredibly simple to see that stacks of 100 ammo are incredibly overpriced even if you don't have auctioneer, all you have to do is hover over the item and see that the price per unit is greatly above that of the stacks of 1000. And I just loaded up WoW without Auctioneer and went to the AH and it clearly says 100 or 1000 for me. The only reason someone would by the stacks of 100 over the stacks of 1000 is pure laziness or pure ignorance of the way the AH works, and I would hope that one would be able to figure out even the very basics of the AH by the time you need epic arrows...
Euripides said... December 28, 2009 at 10:40 PM
I've been listing stacks of 100 for the same unit price as they go in stacks of 1000 since the epic ammo launched. I suppose I'm costing myself a tiny bit of potential profits by competing with the other D-bags who try to put one over on distracted hunters, but it's a small loss, and the personal glee I see seeing hundreds of stacks go out the door at this price is well worth that small cost.
Kestrel said... December 29, 2009 at 12:06 AM
Simple solution: Don't use the default AH interface. Anyone who does...well, caveat emptor still works in as pure a free economy as exists in this world.
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 12:45 AM
I feel very bad for those people who only think the worst of poeple, like businessman, how sad that people will go through life thinking the worst of people. Maybe someday this world will get better. It will take each person to think positive, and have thier actions make a difference in life.
But then again this is just a game, and I'm sure noone that does this is a jerk outside the game. /sarcasm
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 2:35 AM
This is a weak argument
More often than not you will see ads with huge attracting deals and tiny "here is a catch" phase at the bottom. It is not a scam, the seller disclaim there term and condition. Its the buy fault for not reading carefully, due to carelessness or laziness.
Same goes for selling arrow/bullet. With the standard interface of Ah, 100 and 1000 is easier to see than the tiny phase. It'ts the buyer fault for mindlessly .
And with the standard AH UI, when you click buy out it requires you to confirm " buyout auction for ...g". A sensible buyer would take a second look at the auction.
Moron of the week thread by Gevlon also has the function of warning buyers for these tricks. If you dont want to be called a moron, pay attention.
Scam deal with legal, not ethic. Best buy sell the same headset at 150% price compare to Walmart. Is it a scam ? A dealer try to sell you a car by saying " This is the best price you can find ", is it a scam if the dealer next door has a cheaper price ?
If its unethical for doing so, then I bet 90% trader, seller out there are evil. But hey, you have the option to buy, or not.
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 2:45 AM
The difference between this and the real world is most buyers don't notice the name of the seller so any damage to your sales would be minimal. The exception would be if you use your AH toon as your main and care whether or not you are viewed in a bad light by anyone. Another issue would be if the character is in a guild that cares about their reputation (Blizz realm forums love stuff like this).
Since most people that play the AH do so on separate toons I don't see this as an issue.
A funny side note on my server... bullets/arrows were selling for 80g/stack last week and the 100/stack undercutters caused the 1000/stack players to cut their prices. Bullets/arrows are now at 4g/1000 and my hunter is grateful for the rapid price reduction. :)
Goth said... December 29, 2009 at 2:54 AM
Integrity means everything and those that are using these scams know that they are wrong. I will not sell a stack of 100 arrows for the price of 1000 arrows because it is morally wrong and I know the difference. The same is true for lets say a stack of essence since a stack of 10 will be much more expensive than a single essence, but I will mark up a single 15% of a single in a full stack. This is considered a fair practice. Duping people is not and never will be fair or good business.
If you think that people do not take notice of your scams you are totally wrong and are just dragging your character though the mud. People like this are morally bankrupt – lets make 3 posting alts and this one will be my scammer alt – bad people are bad.
I have many times bought goods from a supplier that did not have the lowest price, but always has a steady supply that I frequently buy from - Customers matter.
Goth said... December 29, 2009 at 2:57 AM
Bobreaze
I feel no remorse for selling stacks of 100 arrows it doesnt make me feel like a slimeball
Bobreaze sometimes it is better just to keep your mouth shut, especially if you are a morally bankrupt slimeball.
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 3:28 AM
All the talking about making relationships is pointless. I don't make relationships with customers. It's a game. They could quit tomorrow. Witch will stop the cash flow from them. Why would I want to put time in such an risky investment?
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 5:33 AM
I've never read such ridiculous nonsense in my life. It is clearly the buyer's fault if he/she doesn't know what they've bought, not the sellers. Marking smaller item sizes for higher prices is established business practice not unethical. Ever noticed the difference between a multipack of 8 packs of crisps, and a single one?
With ethical rubbish like this Markco I'm frankly amazed you got anywhere near the gold cap.
Tree said... December 29, 2009 at 5:47 AM
@Anonymous
Caveat-emptor is only the rule in economies with no consumer protection laws. If you go out and sell packs designed to appear as if they contain 1000 diamonds but only in fact contain 100, see how far "caveat emptor" gets you with the judge.
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 6:01 AM
The reason why selling 100 stacks of ammo is a scam and worse than splitting stacks of saronite or eternal fires is because you are relying on the buyer making a mistake to get your sale. Selling saronite in singles rather than stacks is actually providing a service to buyers who don't want to waste time reselling their leftovers. They are paying extra for the convenience of having the right amount.
Heywood Djiblomi said... December 29, 2009 at 9:23 AM
20oz bottle of [insert caffeinated beverage here]: $1.49
2L bottle of same beverage: $1.19
Quantity and price clearly marked.
1000 arrows: 10g
100 arrows: 9.99g
Quantity and price clearly marked.
What confusion with the UI?
bo-breaze said... December 29, 2009 at 9:39 AM
@Goth
Thanks for the personal attack i appreciate it. Since when has morals had anything to do with bussiness as usual ? it doesn't I have moralls they may differ from yours but does that make me a slimeball i dont think so. If you belive posting arrows in stacks of 100 for a mark up then i believe you need to quit using the AH. INo more bid low sell normal no more selling of vendor goods nothing. Because all a person does when they repost stacks of 100 is buying low and selling high. Is it their fault for buyers stupidity no thats a buyers faul.
zif anyone is inerested i plan to make a post about this on my blog. Showing how this is no scam and only lasey buyers.
Gold NoScripts said... December 29, 2009 at 10:33 AM
I posted here yesterday that I never participated in the misleading practice of 100 arrows per stack pricing. Yesterday I decided to do an experiment and see if this this was even worth it, as a business channel.
Ethics aside I found that playing arrow games isn't really a viable business choice. Full details can be found on my blog, but a quick summary:
-I purchased 1000 iceblade arrows for 20.2 gold.
-I posted 10 auctions of 100 arrows each at 20g.
-After 12 hours NONE sold and I was undercut on the 100 arrow stacks by muiltiple people all the way down to 5g.
-I posted again, each stack at 4.5g. 6 hours later I have not been udnercut, but no arrows have sold.
Doesn't seem worth it to me.
Tree said... December 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM
I am both disappointed and amused by the seperation of ethics and business it seems many posters are demonstrating. The arrow stack scam is a scam because it relies upon deception - the hope is that somebody will believe that it is 1000 and so be fooled. That is why it differs to usual reselling. It is also what makes it unethical.
To be quite frank if you can't make money without acting immoraly you're already in bad shape. The economy works on supply and demand. People pay for a product or a service they can't supply themselves and the vendor profits from the margin.
None of that requires any deception. If you can't make money in that world your business model is fundamentally flawed and will be ultimately unsustainable.
Moreover, business people the world over recognise that one of the most valuable assets (in real dollar terms) for a business is goodwill. Goodwill brings in customers, ensures quick orders from suppliers, smoothes over disputes and brings you fresh business opportunities. In some industries, the value of goodwill can exceed the physical asset base. When you set out to deceive people, you are setting fire to that goodwill.
bo-breaze said... December 29, 2009 at 11:33 AM
so in real life wal mart cares about its customers? Lol thats why theres only 2 cash registers open and 8 do it your self machines. And the machines only have 2 spots for bags it bitches every time you move one off of it to make room. Bussiness doesnt care about ethics it cares about the bottom line. Why else would big shoe companies and other companies ship the production of their goods over sees to be created by underpaid people living in poverty.
The arrow scam does not rely upon deception it relys on stupid people. The same stupid people that only buy 8 saronite bars for 32g when they can get 20 for 30g and have leftovers to resell. IF you belive its a scam that relys on deception go to bobreaze.blogspot.com i have pictures showing stacks of arrows in regular view ah and auctioneer. Its clear that 100 /= 1000 and that a buyer can see the difference.
Markco said... December 29, 2009 at 11:50 AM
Hang on one second... are you guys who support this saying that it's ok BECAUSE people are dumb enough to buy it? Good grief!
Hopefully more people will follow my idea of selling at around normal value in stacks of 100 and make this scam pointless.
The only thing that makes this a scam is that you are relying on people being stupid. When I split a stack of saronite into 5 stacks of 4 and raise the price this is ok because my buyer doesn't want to buy the full stack and willingly pays a little bit extra to avoid paying for a full stack unnecessarily. No one buying the arrows/bullets WANTS 100 instead of 1000.
Wiggin said... December 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Where to begin...
1) Markco makes a pretty weak argument in the blog post for why one whould not engage in this pratice, but does better in his replies to the comments. The blogpost is full of insults as "cheat, scam, and trick" without discussing the greater issue, what are ethics and how do they apply to a virtual community? However his comments side step this issue by giving solid market-based reasons for not doing so, relationship development. These market-based reasons are the ones we are looking for, rather than simple appeals to a "greater good" and avoid being "bad" without discussing what is "good" or "bad."
2) There is most certainly some underriding currents in the comments, whether intentional or not. Many of those despising the practice are passive-aggresively attacking the likes of Gevlon, and the converse for those supporting the practice attacking Markco. These childish politics serve no purpose so stop kidding yourself.
3) While the buyer beware principle does apply here, there is relevance to the idea that one is simply deceiving people, but deception isn't the only reason they are sold. I admitted in a previous post that I have engaged in the practice before, but on several occasions my bullets/arrows sold because there were no othe stacks available at all...the point being there IS gray area here.
4) There are people who might get "tricked" into buying the stacks while there are also people who need them, no matter the cost. There is little to no hoopla for those who sell a particular item at 999% of its value, attempt to control a market, or (as Markco has endorsed before) using multiple alts to artificially raise the price of an item. Deception is deception, the degrees of which don't make the practice better or worse.
5) There are people on both sides who state the practice is "morally wrong" or "itz fine, free goldz, L2P" when the issue that isn't being address is relativity. Now, everyone adheres to their own set of principles, some may be very similar, and some more might feel that there should be a certain set of principles that trumph individuality, but that is the limit. One who doesn't feel that way therefore doesn't apply to the criterion. Simply, if it works for you, that is fine, and if it doesn't work for you, that is fine. Many people, myself included, have come, or are coming to the conclusion that the practice isn't right for them. If you feel otherwise, so be it, the markets will continue.
Is it so hard to view anything objectively these days? Or does everything have to be me vs. you, red vs. blue, right vs. wrong. The gray area is where its at people.
Markco said... December 29, 2009 at 12:07 PM
/thread Wiggin :)
My goal was to provide people who didn't like the scam with a way to destroy its profitability. I like your analysis though, very fair and unbiased.
Zan said... December 29, 2009 at 5:29 PM
I introduced one of the first people who got the epic arrow pattern to Auctioneer last night. He'd been listing his auctions manually.
We've spent some time discussing the person trying to sell stacks of 100 for the price we're selling stacks of 1000 for.
He feels sympathetic for hunters having to pay out the nose for ammo and doesn't like the scam.
When using the default interface, the auction that's listed earliest is the one with the lowest bid. The scam seller was selling for less total gold than we were, but at more gold per item.
He and I have opted to sell stacks of 100 at the same price per unit as we sell our 1000 stacks. We're hoping to push his auctions so far off the front pages of the list that he feels overwhelmed and gives up.
Anonymous said... December 29, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Well, I could say a lot about that and in my personal opinion I wouldn't consider it a scam but most arguments have been said anyway.
So I just want to give an exemple to show how difficult it is to give a definition to ethics and moral in the domain of buisiness. Before playing WoW I played another game (called Runescape) which had no AH for some time. There I heard about a "scam" (although it never happened to me) that consisted of two people working together: one was advertising to sell an item for X gold (higher than normal price) and the other would offer to buy the item for X+Y gold (at an even higher price). Some ignorant guy thinks that he can make a profit by buying from person A and resell to person B (it was actually possible that one didn't notice each others advertising, as there was an overspammed trade chat). He buys the item from person A for a higher than the normal price and then the two people just logout and disappear and he remains there having bought a useless to him item at a very high price.
Now obviously you'd say these two worked together to perform a scan, but didn't the buyer also try to act in his own interest? He wanted to make a profit by deceiving the others (instead of telling them Mr. X wants to buy your item) using information he thought only he posessed. If he had succeded it could also be considered a scam. But he didn't, because the better prepared and smartest buisinessman won. So what's the difference? Everyone is playing a game and tries to protect his own interests. The smartest one wins.
Think of that: if you offered a rogue a supre pick pocket ability, which allows to steal money from other players and guarruanteed that nobody would ever learn who had taken the money, not the victim, nor Blizzard, would they use it or not?
Anonymous said... December 30, 2009 at 6:33 PM
I salute you Markco for taking the high road and standing for honesty and integrity in business. Repeat business drives the economy, both in WoW and in the real world.
Rob Dejournett said... December 31, 2009 at 3:38 AM
Agreed with Marcko and others. This is simply unethical (selling 100 instead of 1000). If you have no moral qualms about it, so be it. I do and I won't sell my products like that. Everything I sell is 100% legit and ethical, no cheating or scams, and I'm well on the way to gold cap on 2 dift servers.
The buyer should not have to feel like they just got cheated after buying your product. That's the big difference between people like me and so called 'goblins'. If your enjoyment comes from making people feel bad that they got conned into buying your overpriced product, so be it. But at the end of the day, the ethical businessman will have more repeat business.
Anonymous said... December 31, 2009 at 3:46 PM
It's a shame that some players feel the need to "semi-scam" other players to find some fun in WoW. And to be honest, it's even more sad that someone needs to screenshot and post the images of the so called "morons" on a personal blog.
Think about it: you make money from ignorant people (ignorant = not aware), take a screenshot, post it on your blog, insult them and feel satisfied of being a great economist who rules the WoW economy.
Pretty childish and dumb, isn't it?
Anonymous said... December 31, 2009 at 6:03 PM
There was this guy who was advertising 1g/arrow in the AH and to grab it fast!---he filled up a couple pages of arrows so that some people would think that's the real price. he said he got a lot of gold out of that. tsk tsk =/
Anonymous said... January 27, 2010 at 6:13 AM
For the love of god, you're playing a game which revolves around slaughtering your way across Azeroth, killing pretty much everything in your path. Between Murloc genocide and the mass extermination of pretty much every type of animal in sight there is even the opportunity in at least one quest for the torture of a prisoner. And if you're on a pvp server you can throw in the joys of ganking and corpse camping.
Why all the angst about a minor and relatively harmless exploit of the less attentive shopper?
John Galt said... April 13, 2010 at 12:41 PM
To all those arguing about business ethics read ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand. Its not about ethics. Its about working for yourself and not sacrificing yourself for the sake of others. The complacency of others is not my problem!
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