Scott Alan Smith is a Crook!
Edit: Screen shots and proof/explanation of the cookie stuffing Scott has used in the past are present at the bottom of the post.
I have a very strong warning to give to anyone looking for information on Mysterious Fortune Cards through a certain Scott of Cold's Gold Factory. Call it a public service announcement. Yeah, that sounds like it's not a personal vendetta and more like I am trying to protect you. Needless to say, Cold has been on a crusade, no, more like a tirade of late, accusing Mageshadow of stealing content and myself of trying to steal his money. Neither of which are true, but his challenging of the moral direction of the blog has left me with a handful of choices:
1. Work things out with him privately (failed miserably a dozen times).
2. Ignore him completely (tried that already for two months).
3. Expose him for the self centered crook that he is (sounds like fun let's do it).
In all sincerity, I don't enjoy doing this. To attack another person is not something that comes naturally to me and I hope that you see the satirical parallels between this post and the one that Cold put out a few weeks ago. Without his egregious attacks, both in private and public, I would not be going to the extremes of writing this post. In fact, if not for the public ones, you wouldn't even be aware of the situation. Out of self defense against a person who seems intent on attacking not just the site, Mageshadow and myself, but also you, the "Lemmings" as he calls you, I feel that it's in the best interest of JMTC to expose Scott Smith for who he really is.
Scott Smith's Strange Personality
Scott is the very thing he claims others to be. He's a self-centered liar, a person who looks out for no one but himself. One minute you're his best friend and the next his greatest enemy once he has no more use for you. Money is his only concern. These are steep claims so allow me to elaborate for you.
Scott once asked me why I ran my blogging carnivals and I told him that it was because I wanted to create a community here where all the people interested in gold writing could collaborate, including new and old bloggers alike. I told him that newer bloggers tended to fail before the carnivals because they had trouble being heard and thus they'd quit after a few months. He himself went from 20 subscribers to 500 in just a handful of blog carnival submissions. His response? "That's a load of crap, you're doing it for the money, you want to create sites that can sell your guide." I was shocked by this and the way he said it. First off, on another site he came to my defense and stated that he felt the blogging carnivals were an amazing thing for new blogs such as his own. Back then he made it seem that he felt I was doing it to help new bloggers, but now I realize that he always saw it as a money grab. A money grab that he wanted to participate in.
Later on Scott created his own Carnival, but the goal here was to get himself links and money, not bolster the community. He made it a rule that you had to link to him in your submission, something I never did because I wanted anyone to participate without feeling there was something in it for me. I don't think Scott could create anything without there being something in it for him, which seems to be the case with everything he works on.
Another example of Scott's strange personality, he had a fight with the admins at the JMTC forums because he was spamming his site and putting lots of links in his signature file. He was fighting with Whitewolf because the admins were asking him to stop spamming and he came crying to me in emails that my forum admins were attacking him. He was so angry that he called them quite a few nasty things and blamed them for his actions. "What's the point of talking on this forum if I can't advertise my site?" He asked, and I told him to take it up with them and obey the rules of the forum, so he left and never came back.
Origins of the Card Guide
When Scott asked me for help with getting more subscribers, I told him that he should try Aweber. He said he would do it in exchange for two tweets per week as well as links each month to his blog. I was sort of taken aback. Scott was trying to 'cut a deal' with me, "make money off me making money" as he put it to me in the email. I really didn't know how to respond, other than, no thanks. He did end up getting the Aweber account in the end, though not through me.
Then came the mysterious fortune card guide, the thing I actually told him to make in conjunction with Aweber, but which he took in the complete opposite direction of where I suggested originally. I told him that he should create a free fortune card guide in order to get people to sign up for his email list. I explicitly said that he should make it free, because he had already covered all the content on his site regarding the guide and to charge for it would be a mistake. He didn't take my advice, and literally copied the sections sometimes word for word into the guide. He added a sentence or two, and sometimes even rephrased a few areas, but the hard data was all taken straight from previous posts.
The card guide itself is nothing more than the free information he posted (he even links to the information in the screenshot above, entitled "The Mysterious Fortune Cards Mega Compilation") along with links advertising his site and links to various affiliate programs, including my own. Money is all Scott cares about. He doesn't think I'm a crook, well if he does, it seems strange that he sells my product on both his main site and inside the product itself. What person would sell the product of someone else even after they go public and attempt to paint the seller as a crook? A person fueled by greed and nothing else.
His guide is basically a handful of posts pasted into a single document, which is mostly white space and images, as well as advertisements for posts he has written. The guide tells you to buy herbs, craft cards and then shows you some of the typical ah addons and how they can help you "bark" the cards in trade. It takes 2 minutes in the JMTC forums to get this information, and you can read it on his site as well for free. To charge people for this is basically a scheme of epic proportions.
Here's something funny for you to think about. When Scott first sold his card guide, he screwed up the price and sold a few for $1. He then spent a week harassing these buyers and telling them that they had stolen the guide from him; that they actually owed him $9. This is his mindset, that the world is out to get him and that his mistakes are someone else's fault.
More Examples of Crookedness
I warned Scott repeatedly about his google adsense practices and only recently he was finally penalized (his ad privileges were revoked) for his misuse of google adsense. He blames it on his girlfriend, but I warned him several times that he needed to make changes because they negatively effected both his site and those sites he linked to. I would not have cared if he didn't have links to my site on his, and I asked him repeatedly to stop asking people to click on his ads. Since he refused to implement changes (such as stop asking his audience to click on the ads) google ended up banning him. Once again, all Scott cared about was the money and he blamed his girlfriend when he knew darned well (google should have emailed him) why his advertising rights were revoked. You get warnings if it's for clicking on your own ads, and since he didn't receive those (so he says) then it was for asking people to click on his ads.
There was also the case of Scott putting up bad ads with project wonderful, which were actually an attempt by him to stuff cookies on his site, that ended up getting my paypal account hacked. I lost $1200 that day in $200 increments and although I was mad on twitter, I gave Scott the benefit of the doubt and I worked with him to resolve the issue. I didn't go crying to the world and trying to paint Scott as a crook for attempting to stuff cookies (which he was, there's no doubt in my mind). Now recently, Scott accused me of stealing his money with the coaching program...
The coaching program was actually making Scott $5 per month, not taking $10 from him, as he lied about recently. You see, Scott had two referred coaches, so that covered his $10 each month and he signed up as his own affiliate under me, so he only had to pay $5 each month instead of $10 like a normal coach would. So there you have it, Scott was making money, not losing money with the program and for the record, I payed him back $40 for 4 months, which I did not have to do since he was well beyond the refund period for the first 2 months.
I handled the coaching program mischanges as best as I could and I've cancelled the program until I can get everything working properly for the coaches. All the other coaches that had issues came to me and resolved the issue one on one, but Scott felt that this was a great opportunity for traffic, so he "blew the whistle." In his post, he talked about how he contacted the BBB in my area and Clickbank as well. Since my butt was on the line here I decided to immediately call both organizations and explain the situation. To my surprise, a week later both contacted me back to let me know that no accusations were ever levied against my site. So once again Scott completely lied in order to make the situation seem more grave than it was. What a load of garbage! What's more, he even used the step by step guide I gave him to getting the transactions cancelled and labelled it as something he figured out!
Don't Buy From This Crook!
Scott you may turn things around one day and fix your motives, but you will be black listed permanently for your actions against both this site and the community here. Out of concern for all those involved I am showing the world who you really are and that your guide is a scam. Also, since I know money is all you care about, I figured I'd hit you where you might actually register some pain and therefore leave JMTC alone forever.
In conclusion, everything in Scott's guide can be found within his site for free, he even put it all in the same place for those interested. Do not waste $10 to only find out that he even links to the place where you could have gotten the information for free.
To those who feel I should ignore this bastard, every once in a while, regardless of how small the gnat is that's biting you, you need to give it a hard whack. "Oh Markco, you're the bigger man, don't do this." That's nice and all, but my business is tied to my integrity and when someone attacks it directly I'd be a fool to not punch back. Nobody hits a rattlesnake because they know they'll get bit bad and it's high time I became offensive instead of defensive all the time. You want to fight with JMTC? Well prepare for a bloody nose.
Honor is a hard thing to come by these days. People like Scott lie because they don't feel that they are accountable. They play games behind the scenes and try to pit people against each other. You're accountable now Scott and I hope for your sake that this is the last time you decide to attack JMTC.
As for the rest of you bloggers out there, many of you warned me that Scott's guide was garbage but you've done nothing to protect your own audiences. Some of the people who blew the whistle on this still promote it. Why aren't you guys and girls putting in the effort to create really great products, as well as avoid the sale of garbage ones such as these? Where's your honor? Just food for thought.
EDIT: Proof is in the Pudding; Yes Cold Was Failing at Cookie Stuffing
"Cookie stuffing (also cookie dropping) is a blackhat online marketing technique used to generate illegitimate affiliate sales. Cookie stuffing occurs when a user visits a website, and as a result of that visit receives a third-party cookie from an entirely different website (the target affiliate website), usually without the user being aware of it.[1] When (if) the user visits the target website and completes a qualifying transaction, the cookie stuffer is paid a commission. Depending on the terms of the affiliate agreement a qualifying transaction may refer to creating an account, making a purchase, completing an application (loan, credit, etc), or subscribing to a newsletter."
There are two very popular and basic ways to perform cookie stuffing. Again I shall use Wikipedia for this:
"Frames and IframesIframes are a way of embedding a page within a page. A webmaster embeds a web page with one simple line of code. The affiliate embeds an I-Frame onto their page that loads their affiliate URL. Frames work in a similar fashion.
ImagesThe "IMG" HTML tag forces a browser to attempt to retrieve an image at any URL. It doesn’t matter if the URL supplied doesn't have an extension like ".jpg", ".gif", or ".png" at the end. For instance, "img src=http://google.com" would actually get anyone that visits that page to send a visit to Google. Affiliate links can be put in directly or by creating a redirect in their .htaccess. This is how affiliates cookie stuff user content sites like forums."
"The most basic method ever..The most basic way of stuffing a cookie would to use a html img tag which references the affiliate page which drops the cookie. The visitors web browser will goto this page, even though its not an image and will accept the cookies returned.
Iframe cookie stuffingDescription: This is one of the oldest and most simplest methods out there. Most people who cookie stuff have started out using this method. Basically you put a 1 pixel iframe on your existing website and everytime someone visits your site, the affiliate page is loaded within the iframe and the cookies are dropped onto the visitors system."
Now for the nitty gritty stuff.
(note the white square block at the end of the affiliate link - this is the failed cookie stuffing)
Right click the white square block and say Image Properties (or similar for what ever web browser you use):
Here you can see that it is a 1x1 pixel image, typical description of basic cookie stuffing.
You can also see that the image now has the affiliate link "https://www.assoc-amazon.com/
You can also see that the image now has the affiliate link "https://www.assoc-amazon.com/
In most web browsers (I'm using Opera here) I can also right click and say Inspect Element:
Now as if that isn't enough, he is using iframe stuffing AS WELL (I'm using Google Chrome here for these inspection options).
"< iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?t=coldsgolworla-20&o=1&p=8& l=as1&asins=B004GZ2RCY&fc1= 000000&IS2=1 <1=_blank&m=amazon&lc1= 0000FF&bc1=000000&bg1=FFF FFF&f=ifr" style="width:120px;height: 240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0">"
When about 4 different people called him out about it on his blog he deleted all the comments after trying to explain some of it.
After deleting all the comments he then commented:
Then more people commented and he deleted everything + disabled comments for that blog post (the blog post is still there so you can check, but of course he has removed the cookie stuffing and all the comments). This is not something you can make up, there were plenty of witnesses to this.
The next bit is screenshots from his Twitter while he was blasting you, you can check out all the profanities etc and it's what got him ultimately removed from being a Wind Trader.
(remember on Twitter you need to read from the bottom up, so start at the bottom of the bottom image)
1) http://i.imgur.com/sxr9h.jpg
And finally, here is a series of screenshots from the day of the cookie stuffing paypal incident.
And finally, here is a series of screenshots from the day of the cookie stuffing paypal incident.
73 comments: on "Mysterious Fortune Card Guide - EXPOSED!"
GrayzBDF said... June 2, 2011 at 8:28 AM
Interesting post. Sparks strong emotions.
I hope you're wrong about him. A few things have come through when i've heard the Auction House Junkies podcast. A simple example is to listen at the difference when Wes promotes his products and when Cold does it. I give both of them props for what they do and I don't have anything against Cold. It's just that some things come off pretty odd in my opinion. It's the exact same issue I have with the JMTC meetings when they plug their blogs instead of discussing the topics from the blogs live. Share the information a 100% or don't share anything at all. Anything in-between is usually garbage.
I really dislike the way things turned out between you two on Twitter. It should've been solved with lawyers in a worst case scenario. Email or phone would've been the 'normal' route to do it. Kammler's post about opinions and responsibilities (paraphrased to shits haha) fits in well here.
Twitter isn't all fun and games.
Artose said... June 2, 2011 at 8:47 AM
Wow Markco!! I've been reading posts on here for a good 4/5 Months. I personally had no idea about this stuff and have frequently visited cold's blog. I always credited his work, but not now. I do however feel bad for the fellow as once things are brought out he will kind of realize that he is wrong. I do hope this can be resolved with minimal damage to anybody involved.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 8:52 AM
I like how you say all Cold is concerned about is making money when at the bottom of the email I got this morning it says:
"Like this article? Learn to make gold like Markco with his Cataclysm Gold Guide."
Made me laugh. Regardless, I frankly am sick of this banter, and with the recent quality of the posts on this website, garbage like this is making me consider unsubscribing from the emails all together. If you're better than he is (which you're proving by this post that you're REALLY NOT) then just give up on trying to change his opinion, and assume the readers will be able to see quality difference, if you think there is one. For either blog we don't want to see a garbage post like this, and it really takes away from the gold blogging community.
Grow up pls kthxbai.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 9:02 AM
Thanks for the post, the guy sounds like a real low life!
Scott said... June 2, 2011 at 9:12 AM
You tell him Markco :-). The name I go by is Scott (it's my second name but the one I use), but I'm nothing like him.
Silverthorn said... June 2, 2011 at 9:33 AM
Wow, that's some heavy stuff. I hadn't seen any of the concerns before, but it sounds pretty bad.
Please post the names of the cookies (if you can) that were used to rip off your PayPal account. It sounds a little far-fetched, but it's more likely if you use the same password for multiple sites (a big Internet no-no). Fess up, if you did-- it would help make things a little more clear. Presumably you've contacted PayPal about the fraudulent payments?
Anyway, as a reader that both uses PayPal and occasionally reads Cold's stuff, I'd like to be certain that I'm not opening myself up for hacking!
Sorry that you have to spend your effort writing a rebuttal to this person, but you gotta do what you gotta do. No sense ignoring it, if it's just going to get worse otherwise.
John Coleman said... June 2, 2011 at 9:38 AM
The defamation coming from both sides in this argument is leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth. None of us are shocked that individuals whose goal is to "make as much gold as possible" also have the goal of monetizing their skills. An entrepreneur is an entrepreneur.
Most of these guides are compilations of common sense techniques anyway; it's not hard to find the "tips" elsewhere for free. If the guy can make a few bones off of repackaging his content, what's the big deal? These comments are petty bickering...but defaming someone by calling them a crook is taking it a little too far, quite frankly, and you are opening yourself up for a lawsuit. This is not Azeroth.
How about both of you just drop it?
Erorus said... June 2, 2011 at 10:04 AM
[citation needed]
That sure is a long post calling out someone without any links to back it up. Not that I don't believe you, but I think it would do more for your story to have links to forum posts or other sources to back up your claims. Testimonials from others who bought the guide would help, too.
Bobbins said... June 2, 2011 at 10:22 AM
I think the comments is problably disabled anyway EPIC handbags at dawn.
However I don't see what this accomplishes you could have made a post on ah pvp - how damaging your competitor can damage you yourself. I can't remember the name (Zoomusing maybe) but there is a comment on Cold's post saying how things escalate and how to stop before they do.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 10:31 AM
When I read the first few lines of this in my RSS feed, I thought "Oh no, not another one of these." As it turns out, it was probably the most interesting, well written post on JMTC in a while.
I'm not a fan of bloggers bickering in general, but as you say, sometimes you have to defend yourself and set the record straight - a little discrediting of the competition can't hurt either to prove your point.
You probably hate hearing about it Markco, but when a similar thing happened with Gevlon, that was an issue with another known gold blogger. The difference here is that Cold is basically a nobody, and barely worth a post. There is a brutal lack of originality in many of his posts that I've seen and completely ripping off the Carnival idea really hammers that one home. While everyone has to start somewhere and is a nobody at some point, he does seem more intent on making a quick buck than improving himself.
On an unrelated note, much as I hate to say it, I'd like to echo the sentiment of a comment on yesterday's post about Mageshadow - I can't believe you continue paying him for his contribution on here. It's your call of course, but look at the Warcraft Econ hall of fame for example, at least half of those interviews mention JMTC and you personally. That's a hell of a legacy to have built; to allow it to be 'maintained' with often unoriginal and sometimes incorrect posts padded with 'look what I saw on the Consortium' reports, it just doesn't seem ideal.
Apologies for the negativity, but considering what JMTC once was, its somewhat disappointing to know within the first line of most posts that I'm not interested.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 10:39 AM
We hate most in others what we dislike in ourselves. It's amusing to see these two duking it out and it probably won't be ending anytime soon.
The worst part of it all is that neither has the ability to trust that the readers are intelligent enough to see these things for themselves. As much as you piss each other off, you are pissing off your readers equally. Suck it up and just move on. This is just sad and a waste of everyone's time.
Tyler said... June 2, 2011 at 10:44 AM
Wait, so how do I make gold with the Mysterious Fortune Cards again?
Scott said... June 2, 2011 at 10:48 AM
I have been reading gold blogs for a couple weeks. You have left a sour taste in my mouth. Everything you wrote about cold is basically here say. I think you would be better off keeping your mouth shut because right now I think you are both slinging mud.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 10:53 AM
It seems fairly obvious to me...Markco and Cold are the same person!
It's actually brilliant!
Matt M said... June 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM
Honestly, will the two of you just get a room and be done with it. I don't care if you kick or kiss each other but this side show gets old for your readers. I for one come to BOTH of your sites to read gold tips, not for some childish tirade by either of you.
So both of you grow up and go about your own ways without slamming the other or I guarantee that both of you will lose THIS reader (and probably many others).
Enough said??
PS. I will post this same on Cold's site as well...
Matt M said... June 2, 2011 at 11:05 AM
Yea... nevermind... you screen your comments... my comment will never see the light of day... hopefully you'll at least READ it and maybe wise up a little?
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 11:06 AM
It's not like your "marko's gold guide" or whatever is called is much better.. furtheremore, nothing really interesting on this site, 90% of what is posted is old garbish posts from guests.
imho consortium is a much better place to get info from than jmtc, it is sad as jmtc used to be a good place.. lately it just seems like posts are published to keep a good google ranking and by that showing many ads of the "guide"...
Oh well, my opinion...
The Lost Meeple said... June 2, 2011 at 11:08 AM
Don't start with the " Oh you deleted my comment " stuff again please
Matt M said... June 2, 2011 at 11:29 AM
Fair enough... you had the cojones to post my comments. Good on you. Now please get back to what readers come to your site for and drop the drama?
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 11:35 AM
I can see that this is important to you, but you shouldn't have front-paged a long and accusatory rant.
If you really had to go public, a much briefer post stating that you are severing ties with this individual for ethical reasons, and refusing further comment, would have been better.
I play the WoW AH game quite seriously, and follow many blogs...and honestly, in all of this, you haven't told me anything I couldn't pretty much discern for myself, and none of it is anything I really needed to know in order to protect myself. I know you think you're standing up for yourself, but you end up just rolling around down in the mud with the guy you are ranting about, and neither of you look good when it's over.
Attend to your own "house" and the rest will take care of itself. Post a little more regularly (people came to this blog because of YOU). Insist that Mageshadow get the information and support he needs in order to improve the quality of his writing (at the very least, require that he get someone to proofread or edit).
Don't turn this place into another cesspool of e-drama. We looked to this site for the quality of its information and for the strong sense of community you encourage. Posts like this (and frankly, the lower quality of the blog in general lately) are not helping you. It's not too late to turn things around, but this place is losing its edge. I don't want to see that happen. And I hope I don't get flamed for saying this...I'm taking the risk because I really, really liked this blog.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 11:38 AM
Seriously, you should take down this post, as it's only going to hurt your reputation. There's plenty of other gold blogs out there with civil people. I'm unsubscribing.
Rasplundjr said... June 2, 2011 at 11:45 AM
This right here is why I like Marcko...
Seriously man thanks for the info and I think your 100% right... Once he starts to screw with your honor and tries to get people to question your actions it's time to stop turning the other cheek and sweep the leg.
So far the only gold guide I find worthwhile to put money on is 20KLeveling. And it's the only one I recommend to my guildmates.
april said... June 2, 2011 at 11:52 AM
I read and enjoy both JMTC and Cold's blog, and I think you both should just cut out the insults and stick to gold tips. It makes you look bad and petty when you start attacking fellow bloggers like this. I come to these blogs for your great goldmaking suggestions, not to hear you guys trash each other. Please just put the rivalry aside.
Ryan Sendek said... June 2, 2011 at 11:58 AM
I agree with Matt. This is only one of two gold websites I read every day and seeing an article like this is disgusting. Let me put it this way. I have never paid real people money for a World of Warcraft product or service aside from my subscription. I won't be buying his guide, your guide, or anyone else's.
Please leave the name calling and finger pointing to the politicians.
Gear said... June 2, 2011 at 12:08 PM
Today at recess in the schoolyard this big kid and this other not so big kid had a fight... grow up both of you (I know Cold is reading this as well). Not even going to mention the possibility this could turn into a 2s pvp.
Gear
Markco said... June 2, 2011 at 12:54 PM
Consider the fact that all of these statements are saved in my gmail. I didn't take the time to actually publish them.
I like what one of these comments said, that people should be able to see this stuff on their own. Aside from copying, would you have known all the rest? Cold has cursed me out a hundred times in emails, flames jmtc in everything he writes and abuses mageshadow; and I'm tired of it.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 1:14 PM
I thought Cold's post attacking JMTC was retarded, and I think this post is retarded.
You guys both blog about a video game, and both try to make money off your readers while also offering some free information. Now, you both have published "Exposed!"-style blog posts about each other.
Sorry, but I don't see much difference between the two of you, other than that JMTC has been around longer. I can appreciate the need to defend oneself, but what you guys really need to do is just not interact in any way with each other.
Congratulations, you and Cold have both lost me as a reader.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 1:15 PM
Fair enough, you have to protect what you have made from people like him.
Martin said... June 2, 2011 at 1:15 PM
I read both blogs quite regularly. I view all this drama as either juvenile or an incredible marketing tool. After all, this is bringing a lot of attention to both of your sites.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 1:19 PM
Well of course you're tired of it. Anyone would be. Nobody would question the fact that you need to cut this guy out of your life. If he's flaming you and "abusing" Mageshadow, then get the hell away from him, cut off contact, and focus on the quality of your own work.
But know this - your rant isn't "saving" or helping me. You're pushing me away from this blog, and that annoys the hell out of me because it used to be a daily read and now I'm reading here less and less frequently.
I never like it when a business tries to promote itself by putting others down. I am not doubting you. I'm just saying that this whole thing, and your insistence on sharing it with your readers (who are not here based on their interest in your inter-blog rivalries) really trashes up your site.
If you want to be a crusader, then make your own site a shining example of quality and good ethical standards. Ranting about Gevlon (yes, we know he's nuts) or Cold (both of you look really bad in this one) doesn't do a damned thing to promote your site or the standards you supposedly uphold.
I hate to say it, but I have to admit I am almost getting suspicious. JMTC is starting to sound like the old World of Ming site, when Ming would deliberately post the nastiest, trashiest stuff he could just to generate hits. I stopped supporting his site at that point, though I hated to do so because I believe in supporting good and creative bloggers. But he fell into the trap of "any publicity is good publicity". Don't you do the same. Please.
Just stop this unless you want us to start thinking that your whole focus is simply on generating e-drama. You, and this site, are far better than that. Aren't you?
Michael said... June 2, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Well the edit to this post is all the proof we need. Cold is clearly doing some bad things with this affiliate marketing etc. And he can't call marcko a crook, his guide is a good quality product being sold for a reasonable price.
Andi said... June 2, 2011 at 1:50 PM
Yeah...
I don't care.
I read JMTC's daily emails, and occasionally visit other gold sites when friends or other sites I frequent link to them. So I'm not hardcore, but...yeah. This stuff really leaves a bad taste in our mouths. We come to the sites to learn gold making tricks, not to be drawn into he-said-she-said high school drama.
I do understand that this is Markco's livelihood and serious accusations are in both blogs. These are two people trying to ruin each other businesses. There's nothing lighthearted about it.
But, as I said, I am not a hardcore gold blog reader. And instead of staying happily oblivious of this stupid feud, now I've had it delivered directly to my e-mail box.
I assume Marcko did some serious consideration before posting this, and as I said, I don't know how serious the situation had become. I do hope (as Marcko said) that this shows others that they can't just walk all over him, because I hope I never get one of these in my email ever again. I have enough drama in my life and in my online game...i seriously don't need this shit in my inbox too.
And finally, I'm pretty sure Marcko isn't British and that Cold threatened to report you to the local BBB and not BBC ;)
Sinshroud said... June 2, 2011 at 1:50 PM
Personally I think Markco does have a right to defend himself, Mageshadow and JMTC community in general from the absolutely disrespectful onslaught of mudslinging that Cold has done lately.
(Markco has updated the main post with some screenshots from Cold's twitter for just a 1-2 day period).
I moderate for The Consortium Forums (gold making forum that Mageshadow kindly often links to).
We really try to stay away from the drama, but here I don't think it can really be helped.
Recently Cold has had his Wind Trader status removed due to 3 different offenses, one of them being the mudslinging at Marcko.
I read both JMTC and CGF for the information and ideas,
Now, I'm not going to post any lies / any non-facts etc. I'm just going to lay it out as I saw it:
1) Yes JMTC did originally give Cold a lot of traffic.
2) Cold eventually built his blog up enough that he now does not need to rely off JMTC for traffic.
3) There was an issue about Cookie Stuffing and about Markco having problems with paypal on the same day (I was in contact with Markco about it then).
4) There was a problem with Markco's coaching program, he admitted it and promptly sorted it out. It could be seen that both Markco and Cold were at fault on it because they both could have done more to prevent it.
Cold apparently reported Markco for 'scamming' to the police departments that deal with this kind of stuff. Since nothing has happened I assume they agree with Markco and that he was NOT trying to scam Cold or anyone else.
5) All the information in Cold's MFC Guide is available on his blog for free.
6) Cold acted very immaturely on Twitter and elsewhere. He was removed from being a Wind Trader on The Consortium Forums due to three negative offenses over the period that he was active there. We have had no problems with any other WT on the forums.
7) Markco has been extremely patient and mature, he has taken an extremely large amount of disrespect from Cold for ages and it's gone too far with him constantly harassing and defaming Mageshadow and JMTC when ever Cold gets a chance.
I don't think running around cussing, throwing a tantrum and mudslinging because of one small misunderstanding is a very mature thing to do. In fact regardless of what happened it is not how gentlemen behave.
It's not the kind of behavior that anyone wants to be associated with, and in any professional field if you are caught acting that way you immediately loose credit, reputation and almost certainly your job.
That's just my opinion. I hope this all blows over soon so we can all go back to happily doing what we love; making gold and enjoying doing so. Instead of getting caught up in immature little 'us vs them' pre-school wars.
Elijah said... June 2, 2011 at 1:55 PM
Definitely a lot of proof there. Tough to argue that Cold wasn't dickin folks.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 2:04 PM
Sinshroud, nobody is questioning the fact that Markco needs to sever ties with this guy. But your lengthy response does a great job of outlining things that should have been dealt with INTERNALLY and not dumped into subscribers' update emails.
Many of us here truly don't care who was removed from Wind Trader status on your site, etc., etc., etc. We just trust you to maintain your site's overall standards and bring us the information that interests us.
The rest of this is just sound and fury and e-drama. I'm not sure why you think that your posting a nicely-organized list changes that. I guess I'm done here, though. All of you bloggers seem to be reaaaaly invested in your little wars and keep trying to justify just why they should be trumpeted to the blogosphere in general.
It's left me feeling that I don't want to read any of your sites until and unless this stuff has blown over =P I'll be back in a couple of weeks, I suppose, unless I am lucky enough to stumble on an alternative site where none of this is going on.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Ok, nice.
But were is my gold Tip for today?
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 2:45 PM
Marcko tries to be more like Gevlon. News at eleven.
Michael said... June 2, 2011 at 2:53 PM
Resolving the issue "internally" as you suggest, was obviously not working. Using a mediator (police, BBB, etc) was obviously not working either. While I don't generally enjoy having all this silly e-drama dropped in my mailbox, this was clearly the next logical step.
And keep in mind, it's only silly e-drama to us. Most certainly not silly to Marcko/JMTC, or to Cold/CGF.
Additionally, I had no idea Cold was this dishonest and shady. So even aside from clearing the air, I appreciate the public service announcement aspect of the post as well. Thank you for the post, Markco.
One final point. I like Mageshadow, even though I feel the overall quality of the content isn't quite as good as in the past. However, I think at least a small part of this is simply due to how much gold making knowledge is already out there. You can only recreate the wheel so many times, so many different ways. A wheel is still a wheel.
Markco said... June 2, 2011 at 2:54 PM
lol @lastanonymous I got a chuckle out of that
Skyfangs said... June 2, 2011 at 2:55 PM
Ok i may or may not get flamed for this, but i do believe you had a right to post this, but i dont believe you shouldve done it on this front page. You see we come here for gold tips, contributing to discussion, and overall a friendly area. When i see something like this posted its a bit of a heart break because that just brings the quality of this blog down.
Now before i get off topic i do believe if you wanted to post this you should have performed an alternative and posted it elsewhere and then linked it with COLD's GOLD GUIDE EXPOSED! by markco and you still wouldve gotten plenty of traffic and interest AND this wouldn't be as bad. Except for a few people who think otherwise, i believe what ive gotten from majority of the posters are they are fine with you doing it, but not where you did it or seemingly in place of gold tips. I will continue to come back here and even post some on the gold forums, but i would really hope more stuff like this doesnt make front page...maybe put it elsewhere and link it. You will have warned the public who is interested in being warned AND you wont get as bad of a backlash from the audience as you have now.
Sincerely,
skyfangs
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 2:56 PM
I, for one, think Markco was justified in this response. I watched the nastiness on Twitter unfold and Cold, went on and on and on and then posted on his site with a pic of Markco on there with BUSTED and Markco the snake underneath. Unnecessary to say the least. The gold blogging community is going to implode as I have seen others accusing fellow gold bloggers of stealing content which again isn't called for. Let's hope it all ends here and for god's sake let's hope Markco has had the last word.
XboxFusionMan said... June 2, 2011 at 3:00 PM
I've read both blogs for a while now and I must admit I prefer JMTC and I have purchased the guide which is informative and has really helped my automate my crafting and the spreadsheet for all professions is worth the cost alone! It's literally been the best (and only) real life expense related to wow. I know that sounds like im sucking up, if so then so be it.
That been said Cold does provide free informative info on a regular basis through his blog which is always a good read and usually relative to what im planning in game and although i didn't shell out for his mysterious fortune card guide that was because he has already given it away for free.
At the end of the day charging lazy people for a product easily available is no worse than selling vendor items on wow! In fact in principle it's what we all do on a daily basis and lets face it anyone reading the guide does...early days at the very least. Dust of dissapearence for 30g anyone?
But in any case I sincearly hope this is resolved as quickly and easily as possible and both blogs return to the quality posts of previous couple of months without reference to this unfortunate incident.
Markco said... June 2, 2011 at 3:18 PM
@skyfangs I really like your analysis and God forbid if something like this ever happens again, I'll create a page elsewhere and link to it for those interested. Thank you for that.
Kuja said... June 2, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Ooh drama! Thanks for the heads up though! I have nothing against his guide even if its a compilation of free info. But the cookie stuffing is baaaad. -.-
Brent said... June 2, 2011 at 5:09 PM
Time to stop coming here. You should be keeping your dirty laundry to yourself. Same goes for cold. Same goes for Gevlon. All of you need to grow up and deal with things. All of you are off of my list to read.
Cya
Brent
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 5:30 PM
I have not been on the site in a while and wow I need some popcorn....This is better then a movie or drama from a guild I was with. At any rate I will still come here and get some gold tips. Have a great day
Rumour said... June 2, 2011 at 6:03 PM
I've always been curious about his Fortune Card guide, since it seemed he was literally seeling info he just posted for free in his blog. Now I know why I don't but guides >.>
MoxNix said... June 2, 2011 at 6:09 PM
This is getting to be like recess in grade 5 only without the teacher watching and ready to intervene.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 6:13 PM
Greed is a natural, base, animal instinct we all have, but we *do* have the ability to override that instinct. Scott Alan Smith seems to have taken greed to the extreme. Maybe he should work for Wall Street. :P
Josh Hunholz said... June 2, 2011 at 6:43 PM
Thanks for the heads up on this one! Usually I frown on public "mud slinging", but when someone is a fraud, you need to point them out.
To those bashing Markco as being "just like Cold" and in it for the money, have you actually looked at all the free and great information available on the JMTC forums? Markco gives a lot of knowledge away for free, and encourages others to do the same.
Running a website this large is very expensive, and you do need a source of income - hence his guide. But JMTC is not solely about the guide. The (optional) guide is just another part of what Markco offers through the site.
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 6:47 PM
@Matt M you just owned yourself, go cry in a corner or something no one gives a shit what you think. I think it's good that the readers gets a warning about people like this, but don't let out the daily gold tip for it! QQ
Anonymous said... June 2, 2011 at 6:55 PM
I miss the days where JMTC was actually usefull...
Adam Paul said... June 2, 2011 at 9:06 PM
Sooner or later this stuff kinda had to be said. I admire Markco for taking sucker punches quietly for this long. Hopefully this in the final post dealing with all of this and we can move on now. This community has changes dramatically lately and its not for the better.
I think we need to just go to the capitalism style where the best blogs get the most readers....
.....From here on lets let the content speak for itself.
Adam (Host - Addicted To Azeroth)
Jesse Seymour said... June 2, 2011 at 10:18 PM
Ok so I have been following JMTC for almost a year now. I am a happy customer of the gold guide, and I personally find the posts from both Mage and Markco to be informative and entertaining.
Personally I think that if you have been reading this gold blog since Mageshadow came on board and you are still complaining about grammar please do us all a favor and unsubscribe. Apparently sitting in Star Schmuks with a tall whatever-the-hell-it-is that is not called coffee at a coffee shop and reading an obscure and outdated grammar guide and acting all superior to someone who has the courage to post his thoughts on the Internet for all to review and criticize is more important to you than the substance of the post. You know these kinds - they care way more about how much something costs than about how well it works.
In regards to the Markco/Cold bout personally I love the fact that Markco is sticking up for himself. It shows that he believes in his product, his reputation, and his marketing practices. It also shows me that he fights for what he believes to be right. For those that think this should be handled off the blogs do you have any clue what happens in the political arena with two competing candidates? All you see is mudslinging from both sides! Where are you guys in protesting that and why aren't you being as vocal about that as you are about Markco and Cold.
Markco sees Cold doing underhanded and shady things. He feels a sense of duty to warn people who may be duped into something they did not want to get into. Shouldn't we applaud the ethical thought process Markco had when he decided to warn us? For all the yammering about how intelligent these readers are I see quite a bit of behavior that makes me say "Huh?". You know, like continuing to read a blog who is mostly authored by someone who's style you don't like.
I would rather Markco warn us about a danger he perceives than to keep his mouth shut in fear of those who would criticize him. If you spent any time at all on the Internet and you weren't as naive as a little child, you would recognize that popular figures get in spats all the time over the what he said and what she said and what he didn't say.
As a blogger myself I know how tough it can be to publish a post. As you are writing it you are always doubting it thinking how many people are going to find it stupid or wrong or call you names over it. It takes a lot of personal strength to just find the motivation to write and publish on a daily basis. As far as being an expert in accumulating a collection of pixels of a certain color, really, there are only so many ways you can do it. Sooner or later blogs will become redundant or repetitive. Rather than blame the blogger, why don't you do something constructive like start your own gold blog? I am and its not because I think I have some incredible new insight into this mini-game within a game but because of my own unique experiences and perspectives allow me to organize and present the information in unique ways.
So Mage, keep doing what you do - my morning reading depends on it. Markco, kudos to you for a great product, a great site, and standing behind your ethical beliefs. To you who disagree with these two outstanding bloggers you are entitled to your opinion but after the 50,000th time no one wants to hear it anymore.
Anonymous said... June 3, 2011 at 1:02 AM
What was wrong with referring to him as Cold? o_0
Saffronia said... June 3, 2011 at 2:05 AM
The bark in trade chat went like this:
Buy a Mysterious Fortune Card and if you are a 5000 gold winner contact seller and receive an extra 500 gold.
Maybe that worked in the beginning. Mysterious Fortune Cards are...omg
THERE ARE NO MYSTERIOUS FORTUNE cards listed on my server auction house!
Gotta go. Take Care. Bye
Anonymous said... June 3, 2011 at 4:33 AM
@Rodorenn
I think you've answered your own point regarding Mageshadow.
"my own unique experiences and perspectives allow me to organize and present the information in unique ways."
More power to you. Yes, there's only so many ways to make gold, its limited by Blizzard and there's nothing any blogger can do other than make the best of the limitations imposed and share it.
I have no doubt Mageshadow also has unique experiences, but falls down on the unique organization and presentation, at least in the context of JMTC.
Markco was a master of gold blogging in the way you describe - yes, he had the benefit of being early to the game when a lot was fresh and new, but the way he organised and presented it made JMTC the best known gold blog.
If Mageshadow was another you, or a Cold, or a Stokpile or whatever and built his own from the ground up (maybe he did, I'd not heard of him prior to joining JMTC) then the reaction would be much different - the standards wouldn't be so high. He is competent, there's no doubt about it.
Look at it from the perspective that JMTC the brand has gone from Markco's originality to Mage having to struggle with the lack of new ideas in the community as a whole. It is the disappointment in the reduction in quality since Markco's hiatus rather than a personal attack on Mageshadow.
Of course, Markco may well have struggled now too, but I personally don't think so.
As a side note, I'm not a gold blogger, but am a blogger in another genre who happens to enjoy the gold mini-game in WoW, so I fully understand your points about the self doubt when pressing publish - I still think it is fair to express concerns regarding a blog's direction in the comments on mine, this, or any other blog as long as it isn't senseless flaming.
Anonymous said... June 3, 2011 at 7:03 AM
56 comments, impressive. You and Cold have put up quite a publicity stunt to draw viewers. Bravo to you two.
Kathroman said... June 3, 2011 at 11:22 AM
There is a fine line between defending yourself and mud-slinging. Those who choose to walk it, must be prepared to get a little dirty from time to time. The other option is to keep a healthy distance from the line and continue on your merry way.
You don't always have to say something in order to make a statement or get your point across.
Food for thought
Gear said... June 3, 2011 at 11:48 AM
@Rodorenn
I don't sit in Starbucks. I sit at home with my coffee and read multiple gold blogs daily, or when they post new content, some are informative others not so much. I save JMTC until the end; reason being, I need to be fully awake when reading and I need my rosetta stone to translate. The ideas on the site are mostly good but the disjointedness of the thoughts and sentences coupled with omited and mispelled words cut down on the quality of the post and therefore limit the enjoyability of the read. I'd rather read a well written post based on a mediocre idea than a poorly written post based on a great idea. For me the satisfaction comes from the quality of the read rather than the gold making idea.
Gear
iceveiled said... June 3, 2011 at 12:23 PM
This is not how adults should behave. While the drama is mildly amusing to read, your petty grievances with another man should never be forced upon your readership.
I mean...this whole thing just looks really dumb from the outside in. I'm sure it's a big deal to you, but it's sort of embarrassing to read.
Anonymous said... June 3, 2011 at 4:59 PM
"Look at it from the perspective that JMTC the brand has gone from Markco's originality to Mage having to struggle with the lack of new ideas in the community as a whole. It is the disappointment in the reduction in quality since Markco's hiatus rather than a personal attack on Mageshadow."
I just wanted to quote this. I just feel like I used to get a lot more out of the blog than I have for months. Maybe it's that I myself know so much more than I did initially. This drama post is what's earning the unsubscribe from me though. That, and the fact that the forums just aren't as good as consortium (btw this is from a "premium" forum member. I think I got my 5$ on that, however, not bitter, access to G.I. was well worth the money to me during glyphmas).
Dicci said... June 3, 2011 at 5:50 PM
umm guys, you missed my comment when you were publishing them all.
I'm sure it was an honest mistake.
Deepcut said... June 3, 2011 at 6:29 PM
Best way to discourage him is to ignore him. Block his email, block his IP from your site. Wash your hands with him.
Anonymous said... June 4, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Markco you haven't really proven anything other than someone got mad and you and blew up and went off.
Cold broke a link when he made an add, then fixed it. How is that cookie stuffing? You're accusing him of cookie stuffing with an Amazon link?
Anyone with half a brain knows that Amazon only gives 24 hr cookies. Cookie Stuffers wouldn't even waste time on a 24 hour cookie.
This just shows how you are reaching for ideas for mudslinging.
I support the rest of the sentiments here when I say this site's quality has gone horribly down hill since you put Mage in charge. We coulda handle all of your pushy guide sales pitches when the content was better. Now its pushy guide pitches mixed with poor content.
Maybe you shoulda hired Cold over Mage, since his content and style is much better than your currntly put out here.
Anonymous said... June 4, 2011 at 9:02 PM
Out of interest, how many of these negatove comments do you think are Cold posting anonymously....?
Anonymous said... June 5, 2011 at 12:12 PM
This bit of e-drama was about as lame as I've ever seen. If you think coming to a wow site that sells information gathered through a little legwork would yield anything but untrustworthy business practices...well, I'll sell you beach-front property in Arizona and maybe giggle insurance in Russia.
What Cold did was absolutely deceptive, and to try and use the excuse that Amazon put it into place for his 'copy and pasted' code is an obvious lie. However, a poster stating his PayPal account got hacked as a result of visiting his site might/might not be true, and some resolution came I guess, but it still wasn't good enough. It was deceptive and a very poor business decision that should cost him users/visitors for his under-handedness.
For Markco to post about this issue is fine. However, Markco defending and going on the attack are two different things - and I think this post is more of an attack than anything. This isn't grade-school, and defending your reputation using a site that looks, very obviously, more professionally done and maintained would be more than enough...to go on the attack is a grade-school maneuver (this is your business site after all)
Markco should also watch how hard he points fingers. While he doesn't embed marketing code into his posts, he does use the guise of gold-guide reviews linked to their owner's sites to build more partner-purchases (there is a reference attribute in the url linking to these guides on partner sites, thus allowing his to make some real-life $ when someone buys one via his link). While it's not malicious, you've always said it's a very non-biased review, and yet you are benefiting from users purchasing the guides.
All in all, I enjoyed seeing how adults can become children and use personal attacks via the internet in a 'business environment' to make themselves lose respect in some of their visitors' eyes.
I read both of your sites, but after years of everyone moaning about Gevlon and you hate his attacks, you have both now volleyed heavily into what is obviously one of the adolescent business moves for either of you.
Lizzie said... June 5, 2011 at 1:19 PM
I have been reading JMTC for over a year, and have also bought Markco's gold guide. I personally love this blog and all the great content posted by Markco and Mage. Thanks Markco for the heads up on Cold's dirty blogging practices. I have been suspicious of his blog for a while, something just didn't smell right about it. Mage is doing a great job, I would like to see all those complaining do it better. Mage I appreciate all of the hard work you have done here at JMTC, keep it up for those of us that love reading your posts.
Anonymous said... June 6, 2011 at 5:19 PM
wait hes the bad guy? arnt u bashing him saying not to buy his guide. I think u both pieces of scum trying to make money off the wow community.
Anonymous said... June 6, 2011 at 5:21 PM
lol oh and comments have to be approved GG, so u just have a black out on anyone that disagrees with u. U really are spineless.
scottiegazelle said... June 11, 2011 at 3:07 AM
As an entrepreneur - you need to take this down with a "I've decided that the original post was unnecessary."
Going on the defense and going on the attack are two different things.
For every one person who bothered to post "I'm unsubscribing", you've probably lost between 10-100 more. People reading back issues will continue to come across the page unless you delete it. Leave the comments if you want to avoid the "he's hiding something" montage.
Frankly, idc either way what y'all do or do not do. A business is not about you, it is about the customer, and how the customer perceives you. People come to JMTC for gold tips, not drama. If you want this to be a biz, then vent to your IRL friends and gold tip to the rest of us.
**FYI I read both sites, I'll continue - unless the drama just goes ON and ON and ON. But you've both moved down to last on my blogroll reads
Cold said... October 28, 2011 at 7:26 PM
TAKE THIS BULLSHIT POST FULL OF NOTHING BUT LIES DOWN PLEASE.
Anonymous said... October 28, 2011 at 9:16 PM
Swearing will get you no where, Scott.
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